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Using Meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?


UCL
Angel
Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
OK.......I'm going to open a new can of worms here.

When I used meth, I got to a point where I actually sensed, and saw, evil.
I saw evil come across the face of some meth users, and I believed I was seeing meth bringing out the inner evil in people. I also believed I saw evil being "channeled" through meth users, who were out of their minds at the time, and had no idea what was even happening.

THEN,....after I had gotten clean, and had been clean for over a year......I STILL SAW THE SAME THINGS when I was around any meth users.
I still believe it to this day...that meth is a creation of, and a tool of, forces of EVIL.

Whether you call it "Satan", or whatever you call it, by whatever religion's guidelines...this question really doesn't have to do with religion at all, but rather, the basic concept of evil...in whatever way that takes form. Every religion on the planet personifies that differently.

WHAT I AM ASKING IS...a question I can never seem to get a straight answer to at meetings, and a question people shy away from when I ask it......
DO YOU BELIEVE that meth is a creation of, and a tool of, forces of EVIL?
AND IF YOU BELIEVE THIS, WHAT PHENOMENA HAVE YOU WITNESSED TO SUPPORT THIS BELIEF???

And yes, I am serious. I want to start a serious discussion on this. Not a religious discussion, but a spiritual/metaphysical one. Anybody game?
     Replies...
eyes
open83
Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
Quote:
DO YOU BELIEVE that meth is a creation of, and a tool of, forces of EVIL?

is meth evil? yes
is what it does to people evil? absolutely
was it created by evil forces? i don't think so...
i think it is just like any other drug out there, created by man, used by man...

JUST
CATS
Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
Quote:
DO YOU BELIEVE that meth is a creation of, and a tool of, forces of EVIL?

Yes, I do believe that meth is evil. I saw it in my ex's eyes too many times. I saw it when he physically attacked me several times. I swore he was the devil himself. I can still see those cold, mean eyes!

I think that meth is man created, but when you use it, it opens you up to evil. Kind of like a Ouija board.

Imget
inrite
Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?

Quote:


DO YOU BELIEVE that meth is a creation of, and a tool of, forces of EVIL?

Yes. I also think it takes a very long time even after your clean to break free from the evil.

I will carry all the damage caused from my addiction with me for the rest of my life.

I feel things deep within me that were never there before my addiction.

Tx
Tigger
Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
I believe that this is why it is called the Devil's Drug
Loraura Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
Quote:
DO YOU BELIEVE that meth is a creation of, and a tool of, forces of EVIL?

No, I don't.

I believe that some people will abuse just about anything if it makes them feel good.

That doesn't make the chemical evil. In fact methamphetamine does have valid medical uses.

In the last 100 years, human civilization has changed DRASTICALLY. Everything we use in our daily lives, just about, was invented in the last 100 years. We are changing at an unheard of fast pace, compared to centuries before us. We will have some bumps in the road, some mistakes, and some pain that we don't know how to cope with.

Penel0pe Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
I think meth is capable of lowering people's inhibitions enough that it can alter a person enough to cause them to do evil things - I know that I did.

Theft, assault, I left my family for another man, I broke the law at every turn, I did a lot of really f-ed up things to a lot of people.

I think Alcohol is right up there with meth as far as being the catalyst for a lot of evil behavior.

Meth is a chemical, booze is a chemical... it's what it does to our minds that causes us to behave in ways that can be called "Evil," depending on who you are.
UCL
Angel
Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
I see your points, all of you. And thank you for responding.

I tend to think it IS the devil's drug, although before meth I wouldn't have believed there really was a "devil".
In the film "Pulp Fiction" there's this line that says "The devil's greatest trick was convincing mankind that he didn't exist." That one creeps me out. What also creeps me out,...is that two dark, scary psychic ex-tweakers I know used to quote that line all the time when they were using, and that unexplained dark phenomena seemed to follow those two around wherever they went.

Another quote that comes to mind..."Man must be careful when looking into the abyss, for the abyss also looks back into the man." (Nietzsche)
And with meth, I don't think the abyss ever completely stops looking back into the man, or woman.
I think there is some dark part of the human mind that gets altered permanently from meth use, and changes the personality permanently, even if just a fraction of a tiny bit that changes.

And maybe the part that never changes back,...the part that gets changed by meth to begin with...is one of the parts of the brain science hasn't figured out yet, maybe it's one of the parts where "science meets mysticism"??
Sort of like what Einstein talked about when he mentioned "standing at the cradle of true art and true science", meaning, something which is "at the gap between what science could explain, and what science could not explain...as in, "metaphysics"?

What I'm trying to say, IS...maybe the parts of the brain that get amplified and damaged by meth, such as the limbic portions, etc...are actually areas of where the measurable, tangible physiological bioelectric brain activity transmutes into the immeasurable, intangible nonphysical world of the SOUL?? Sort of crosses over, if you will?

And therefore, WHAT IF...when we do the dark drug of meth, we are literally opening the "doors of perception", right there in our brain,...and literally damaging our soul and allowing it to channel evil through the dark energy that our own soul invites in?...........

OK, well, I have just freaked my own self out with that one.
LOL! There IS a valid scientific theory in there, I swear, and in days of yore, I could sit and think on this for hours, but, I have GOT to go to sleep.

Night-night.
eyes
open83
Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
Quote:
"The devil's greatest trick was convincing mankind that he didn't exist."

john travolta said that line in "swordfish"....

nano
banano
Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
Just an interesting little tid-bit I found on the internet...one way of looking at it......interesting subject......glad you started this thread.

Science Versus Ideology

To sober-minded citizens, the pervasiveness of drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes in society is a source of much angst and consternation. Drugs become imbued with powers of good or evil: they can be life-sustaining in the case of antibiotics or ruinous as with cocaine or heroin.

It is easy to forget that good and evil are not attributes of drug molecules. In the hands of the wise, poison can be medicine; in the hands of fools, medicine can become poison.

www.atforum.com/SiteRoot/...er99.shtml
luve
piphany
Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
Indianashe(angel)

It's so odd, I was having a pretend conversation with you last night or the night before...I was talking with you about how you felt about the devil and if you, like I, felt that meth was a tool of the devil. I was asking you if you thought that maybe you had seen the devil. I was afraid to put the question out on here because of the touchy feelings that many have on the devil and whether or not they believe and perhaps shame they feel...

See, I believe what the Bible says in my heart to be truth-real truth, not because someone told me to, but because I feel it and I hear God's validation. He (satan) comes to seek, kill and destroy and that's all. I know that I have seen, felt, heard, watched, and been surrounded by Satan-I've even been his pawn many a time in my life. This is not a religious belief. I don't know that I'm very religious at all-maybe my twin is-I'm a Gemini I am a Christian and I do fear the devil but I know where to go for my armor and I have felt the protection of God-Angels or just plain pure goodness.

I believe in my whole heart that meth is a tool of Satan or evil whatever ya want to call it. Just another tool to seek, kill and destroy. I am not silent with any addicts ever on this subject. I believe it is the core and that's that. I believe 100% that if we do drugs or anything that takes our mind to another place, we open ourselves up to evil-the devil, to control us. I also believe what it says in the Bible about Satan going after the ones who are walking in the light with God with a specific purpose of taking them into his fold-away from God's goodness and light. Jesus' whole purpose was to bring the good news to the people on earth and then of course to prove our father's love and give his life and be resurrected...in that good news he gave the secret to protection from evil was God.

So funny that we were having this conversation in my mind the other night...I like seeing the connection with you my Indiana friend
smbch
06
Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
Quote:
Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?

I'll tell ya this....Before I knew what meth was, and obviously before I knew my lover was using, I sensed a darkness about him; very literally like a black aura surrounding him. And I've never seen this, or an aura of any color for that matter, on another human being in my life. It was there! And it was also about that time (hope this doesn't offend anybody) that sex started getting weirder and weirder with him as well, that is to say, he started buying the toys and asking me to do things to him that really creeped me out. I hadn't thought about "evil forces" since 6th grade catechism class, but suddenly I couldn't stop thinking about the devil...

The last time I saw J. was about 6 weeks ago. I had let him in temporarily to help him out; he had been clean for well over a year, and damn it if he doesn't pass a drug test, get a steady job, start getting paid regularly, get all comfortable here.... and he starts using again. It was so obvious it was ridiculous! It didn't help much that he started leaving his smoking paraphernalia lying around because was he too high to remember to put away. As he left (per my request) I looked at that face of his that I love so much, that I'll probably never see again, and it was as grey as ashes. Sure, we all look pretty bad when we don't sleep, but this looked just like "death." It almost took my breathe away, and I'm getting chills now as I write about it. Too freaking weird, man!!

Oh yeah, there was definitely something metaphysical there that I had never experienced before. And I wasn't even the one on it!!!

Sfj Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
To give either meth or evil that much credit is more than either deserves.
smbch
06
Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
Yeah, well, I give it a LOT of credit for being a powerful, destructive force. One that you can actually see.
danimal
55
Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
How can a bunch of chemicals mixed together be "evil"?
Wasn't it the hand of man who came up with this concoction?
Aren't we the ones who make the choice to try meth...in spite of the stark and graphic warnings?
Or did the "devil" make me do it?.
Curious what people from other regions of the world who don't have a "devil" perceive under the influence of meth 
Who IS the scapegoat for our own self deception and self betrayal?
And what about our freedom of choice, was that taken away by the hand of "evil"?
Or did we give it up?
I have no other choice than take responsibility for my meth addiction, and my recovery.
I'm with Suz on this, meth is inert toxic waste...UNTIL we *choose* to put it in our body.
How smart are we? We lay down for this cheap trick, damage and kill ourselves in the process...then blame it on meth, the "devil" or "evil", or some external source OTHER THAN OURSELVES.
Always looking for external sources, objects and events, *drugs*... to make us feel something we're lacking. 

And always looking for a place to shirk our personal accountability, got to have someone or something to blame this on.
If it wasn't meth, it would be some form of "forbidden/fermented fruit". Guaranteed!

In summary. Meth isn't evil....I AM!
forget
suzette
Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
to someone like loraura or bobbie...
....it's a worthless piece of nothing.
WE animate it.
...anything you loose touch with the "self" doing..
even if it's eating fried chicken too much is gruesome.

the seven deadlies..
vanity, lust, greed, anger, sloth, jealously, and gluttony
are always in some form.......that's my "regulation" analogy.
on another level........I saw what you saw.
every time I held a bag of dope in my hand, before I ever did it.....I felt evil sort of wake up and look at me.
the same way the universe sort of leaves you opportunities
.......that you catch if you are sober and you don't if you aren't.
I think yin and yang are always ready to take a cue from you
as to how things lean.
I've had some damn weird things happen to me on speed that are just.........out of the ordinary.
I often wonder if it's "acute perception" or hallucinations.
.....like.. radio waves, and x rays are there...
...but we don't see em.
Van Gogh could.......that's why his works were "spotty"
I wonder is karma or SOMETHING picks on certain people and reveals itself.......and not to others.  like, ghosts.
........it's a question we never get to know for sure.
pen would say.."anti psychotics calm the visions nicely"
I used to think the universe was slapping me around when I
was on a run.  I'd hurt myself in the weirdest ways. 
......getting a cut from a daisy petal or some weird thing.
I had bruises all over me all the time......like flat liners.
it's all theory.  but it's basically temptation......and our cross to bear.  I turned people on to speed that HATED it.
....I was always bewildered.
DSALO1 Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
Dear UCLA and all the other posters that can relate to her,

Yes...me too...I saw it...I felt it and it was not the spirit of light...no it wasn't.

It was dark and all things dark...this Meth does not create marshmallows and rainbows.

If it did...we the heck are we all here needing so much support?

I hear Hitler was on Meth...if this is true.. look what HE DID! And didn't he die from syphilis...hmmmm.. I say! and then he killed himself.
(this is just what I heard...is it true. .anyone know).

For Pete Sake!
And don't we whether we are an addict/recovering addict or loved one feel like we are being tortured deep in our soul?
forget
suzette
Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
It completely changed my priority list......only one.  get more.
....I never in my life have thrown away everything I cared
about...till I smoked it.  I was a bottom feeder..........it was just so bad.  and so hurtful to "gods suz"
DSALO1 Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
That was good Suz (I'm glad you posted that).
Here is something else....
besides doing Meth myself...trying to kill myself and all things ugly

I have known/know PLENTY of people whom I have been up close and personal with who were absolutely the most wonderful people
AND NOW THEY ARE NOT
I will say it again
NOW THEY ARE NOT
They are the walking dead.
And this is why we sorrow here on this forum...almost constantly.

C'mon...if "I choose" to take an aspirin (man made drug) I do not do horrendous ugly things to people or myself. .don't even think it.

I'll be honest...a debate about this subject makes my blood boil.
Kell
happy
Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?
I think there is something to the idea of meth and evil. I think maybe the lowering of inhibitions and the paranoia.

Also, that movie quote is from The Usual Suspects, not Pulp Fiction, or Swordfish.
forget
suzette
Re: Using meth I sensed and saw evil: Did you?

it's also very medieval to point at a powder...
.........and declare it "the devil's work"
it's like thinking elves and gnomes are in on it too......they might be.  but it's scare tactics to present it like that.
......"lead us not into temptation, and deliver us from evil" was written way before meth appeared.
I'm not a xtian.......but I understand the ancient implications of the text.  if we never pick it up........it won't be the thing that kills you.....maybe......there's cancer, there's accidents, there's aids, there's diabetes...
....there's suicide, there's insanity...panic attacks,
heart attack...stroke.
it's all a square dance..
temptation is sort of an arranged marriage to death.
.....if you smoke, cancer   if you eat a bag of cookies a day....diabetes......if you worry constantly about someone else's behavior.
THAT will kill you too.
it's very glamorous to put it in a nifty "urband legend"
sort of mythology.

...don't get me wrong.
I love entertaining the idea....it's very interesting.
.....but it's all theory.  the facts are........the less you "need" the richer you are.  that's the whole meaning of life.
....maybe.  it "feels" like to me, everyone is tempted by something......and the idea is, not to fall into it. and you win.
heroin is not a pretty addiction........but for some heroin addicts, meth sucks.  to me, heroin sucks.
if I held a bag of H in my hand...
.....no temptation AT ALL for me.
but I bet H users feel "the devil" looking at them when they hold one...
.....and I bet they don't "feel" the negative force from HOLDING METH.... it's more like money, another "devil tool"....to barter for more H.
I knew crack heads in Vegas that sold speed to do crack
......it's just a commodity to them...like food stamps.
the "evil" THEY feel is in their drug of choice......crack..is no threat to me.  no temptation there either.
but it's ruining many people lives right now.
.....whitney houston likes crack better.  speeds no bother for her............crack is.
Oreos may not do it for some people, but when I get a bag.
.........I feel the power gestalt gently saying  "no substitutions"
.....and evil looks up at me, because I'm throwing myself away.  I'm damming my own self.  it's all intriguing...
......stephen king wrote "the shining" about booze.
it's all the same thing.


See also:

Odd behavior when you're high on Meth

Nightmares and evil dreams when using meth?

Can meth change someone into a monster?


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