A puzzled father

Northapt

A puzzled father

Could someone help me? Never having used meth I really can't understand how someone could let this get so out of control. My daughter is 25 and is an IV user and has used for about 11 years. She's been in treatment twice and relapsed a few months ago. She lost so much weight and became so paranoid I knew she had relapsed again. I had to call Child Protective service to pick up my 15 month old granddaughter and she is now in foster care. Today I learned my daughter gave her car away to a total stranger (probably for dope) She refuses to go to treatment and says she rather give her child up then go back.

She is spiraling out of control so fast I worry the end is near for her. She must be in so much pain she just stays high as much as she can.

I go to Naranon family groups for support and know not to enable, etc etc... I told her if she won't go to treatment not to call or come over anymore. When I get the call someday telling me she's gone, I'll give her the best burial I can afford.

We are told "the addict must hit bottom" But I wonder.. where the hell is bottom?

Anyone had any words of wisdom for me? Thanks

silly
veronica

Re: A puzzled father

I wish I had words of wisdom ... just take care of yourself (that's all you can do). It sounds to me like you're doing everything right. I know this is hard (so hard), but there isn't much you can do. I've often wondered where my addict's rock bottom is too ... it wasn't in prison, it wasn't living in a hotel or staying at the YMCA, it wasn't losing his "love of a lifetime" or even his parents ... for some it just takes longer, I guess.

My thoughts and prayers are with you!

Tenderhearts
KS

Re: A puzzled father

I wish I had words of wisdom for you. Everyone's bottom is different. My oldest daughter will soon be 29, and continues to throw her life away. Her children have been profoundly affected (ages 11 and 5), and even though she doesn't have custody, the father lets her have them more and more (he's proving just as apathetic as she is).

I hit my bottom when I was just days away from death and hated myself so bad I couldn't go on anymore.

Last year my daughter overdosed on Ritalin...completely unresponsive and was rushed to the hospital in an ambulance. We all prayed that was her bottom. Not even close.

I will hold your daughter close in my heart and prayers. Hugs to you!

So much
guilt

Re: A puzzled father

I wish I had an answer for you and knew what the bottom was. Each person is different. Meth kills and there is absolutely nothing you can do but hope and pray that somehow she can break the grip of meth. My 22 year old son took his life this past August, he couldn't find any way out. 10 year battle with drug addiction, 6 year love affair with crystal. Everything I tried, his father tried and Austin tried didn't work. Please visit his website, share it will your daughter, share it with everyone you know. Let it give you strength to just love your daughter and know that what ever choices she makes his her own. I know it's difficult, I'm still not over the guilt. Thinking there was something I could do, but meth is the devil.
www.austin-hesse.last-memories.com
God Bless You and I will be praying for you.

BentBut
NotBroken1

Re: A puzzled father

Meth takes hold fast and doesn't let go nicely. Many are hooked at their first hit. I know your heart has to hurt Dad and I'm sorry for the pain she causes you and her daughter.

Car went for meth, most likely. Dealers like driving different rides.

Being in Nar-anon and now here, you're in lots of loving support-Welcome.

Some don't have to "hit bottom"...it can be raised for them. I gave my friend the choice of getting clean or turning us in with a time limit. He chose clean over selling and using and is doing fine these days after 11 steady months smoking it. Granted, he lost a lot during those 11 months (marriage, friends, job, a vehicle, and his home), but he's doing darn good taking care of his kids and working his recovery and working/paying bills again. He's regaining his parents and siblings slowly--they deny he ever used.

As for me, I used for 6 months-stole all my smoke from him. I lost last semester in college, missed getting in this semester also because meth gave me a relapse of my Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia. No one knew I used and it took a long time for my Mom to be willing to hear the word meth (even tho she didn't know what it was). I haven't missed much work at all, still have my friends, home, car, and family.

We are both working Celebrate Recovery's 12 Steps. We both saw an MD after quitting meth and got some help with withdrawal. We both see a counselor, get massage therapy and acupuncture. Midnight will give me 90 clean days.

I, personally, could not have cut contact with my friend. I saw where he was headed with the folks he was around and didn't like death or jail. I never gave him money or clothes, but if he needed sleep, food, a shower, or a friend, no way would I/could I turn my back after 24 years of knowing him. Everyone else wrote him off though.

Would I re-do it and stay in contact with him and raise his bottom.....in a heart-beat. The only thing I'd do is I'd of done it faster and had the education KCI's site gave me much earlier.
As long as there is breathe, there is hope.
Your daughter and you are in my prayers Dad,
God Bless

nineyears
clean

Re: A puzzled father

Bless your heart. It sounds like the demon really has a hold on her body, mind and soul. Damn, this addiction is a bytch to kick. It really is. Once it gets a hold of you, and that only takes once or twice using, it does not let go.
By the time it's too late, you are on the merry go round ride from hell, and you take everyone who loves or cares about you on that ride with you.
I'm so very sorry this is your predicament with your daughter, and I pray that your grandchild is safe now.

There's not much you can do, and if you go to Naranon, you know that.

Quote:
I really can't understand how someone could let this get so out of control.

It gets out of control almost immediately. You don't even see or feel it happening. It just happens this way with meth.

Quote:
We are told "the addict must hit bottom" But I wonder.. where the hell is bottom?

I have come to disagree with the notion that we must let the addict hit bottom. There are ways to raise the bottom, if you will, but for each unique individual what will work and what will not work are as varied as the individuals.

Have you thought about an interventionist? This is one way to raise the bottom, so to speak.

For me, my bottom was when, after 13 years of meth use, I had an epiphany. For a few brief moments, the thick layer of denial that I was shrouded in was punctured, and I realized for the first time in all those years of destroying myself that I was about to die. I could sense death was in the room.

I was so very tired of running and hiding and sneaking and doing anything I could to get more dope to try to feel better, and never really feeling better. I finally surrendered to the fact that I was a full blown meth addict and that I was going to die and my son would have to live with the fact that his mother died a pitiful, wretched drug addict.

I got clean in the rooms of Narcotics Anonymous, and I've spent the last 10-1/2 years picking up the pieces of my shattered life and rebuilding it as best I can.

I thank God for my moment of clarity, or sure as the sky is blue, I wouldn't have been blessed with these past 10+ years.

I will say my prayers for you and your daughter; she is worth saving; she is a sick person, not a bad person; please, as long as there's breath, there's hope; if you can muster up the strength, don't give up hope. Sometimes, it's all we've got.

Much love to you and yours and I wish you a Happy New Year. I believe in miracles, so I'm going to ask for one for you.

Northapt

Re: A puzzled father

Thank you all for your kind words. If there is anyone out there who has used meth hard like she does, knows the paranoia, etc, please drop me a line.

Child protective service told me she was sending food and clothes for the baby which they never see. It was s good sign she wanted to be a good mom and I was holding out hope. Now she misses her visits or goes so late they won't let her visit. I'm guessing she's using pretty much all she an get her hands on 24-7 to stay numb from all the pain she has created but I'm not sure.

Northapt

Re: A puzzled father

Lori,

Thanks for your kind words. I tried to bring bottom up I guess, two years ago when I had her arrested and she did a year of drug court. Then when she got pregnant, she went to inpatient for 90 days and then 6 months of out patient. Now once again she went back out. Its like she knows recovery in HER HEAD but not in her HEART.
Her mom uses and so do two half-sisters so I guess she has some trouble cutting them off from her life as well. I guess she just isn't done yet. CPS has some pull to take the baby away for good if she won't go back. I pray that is enough.

Dad

nineyears
clean

Re: A puzzled father

Quote:
she knows recovery in HER HEAD but not in her HEART.

Yep. You're probably right.

As far as using meth hard, paranoia, etc...well, I was there. I was in full-on meth psychosis the last 2 or 3 years and I was using so much each and every single day for that period of time that I believe I was trying to just to do so much so that it would just kill me.

I heard things, I saw things (the shadow people), and I was completely paranoid. I had three windows in my bedroom with mini-blinds on them, and I had duct-taped all the way around the mini-blinds to the window frame, and I duct-taped the little holes that the strings feed through, because I was positive I was being spied on through those miniscule little holes!

I stopped going out of my house; I stopped answering my phone; I stopped bathing because I was sure there was poison in the water that I would be soaking in.

Believe me, by the time I got clean I had become a wretch of a woman.

Maybe it's true that it's always darkest before the light? Maybe she's getting close to the end of this meth madness? Maybe she's trying to end it subconsciously, like I believe now that I was?

And maybe, just maybe, she'll find her way back to you, as I found my way back?

Sfj

Re: A puzzled father

Yes, I think I can help you.
Here's a few thoughts to get you started:
Some things to consider when trying to help a loved one to quit
using drugs. (or to stay quit)
1. Addicts are human beings. We are not perfect.
2. Don't take her behavior personally.
3. Consider her willingness to change.
4. She is in pain and suffering form internal conflict even though she may seem totally different outwardly.
5. Don't try to FIX her.
6. Begin building trust in your relationship.
7. She is aware of her own needs.
8. LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN
9. Be patient.
10. Look for her strengths and encourage her by applauding her strengths.
11. Explain choices and consequences.
12. Relapse, while not desirable is often part of the learning process.
(I don't know anyone who got it perfectly right the first, or even the second or third time.)
13. Eighty per cent or more will not get it right the first time.
14. Are you willing to question your own part in all this? Honestly?
15. Denial is a product of shame and punitive sanctions.
16. Try to understand reaction rather than overcome resistance.
17. Language determines the stigma.

Ok, for those of you who are not meth users, let me tell you this,
there are ways of helping an addict, but it will require incredibly huge amounts of emotional investment and it may seem unfair and not worth it, and even small amounts of success may seem to be too much to be worth the trouble. The time, energy, tears, pain, and even money can make you emotionally bankrupt unless you really know what you're doing,
If you don't know what you're doing, I suggest you be very prudent and cautious, maybe consider another avenue, because meth addition is very powerful, cunning, deceptive, selfish and ruthless.

We meth addicts will stop when the pain of continued use exceeds the fear of withdrawal. Drug abuse begins for one reason and continues for another.

One thing that will almost always get an addict angry, is when someone tries to Tell them what to do.

Treat people as if they are what you want them to be and you help them become what they're capable of being. - - - Goethe

May I strongly recommend the book, "Crystal Meth They Call It Ice"
by Dr. Mary Holley, she is also the founder of "Mothers Against Meth."

1. Get as much info as you can
2. Develop a plan
3. Seek professional help
4. Realize the truthful limitations
5. Most importantly - Trust God
The above statements are just my opinions.

Do's and Don'ts
Treatment Locator
How Meth Addicts Think and Feel
CMA Website

After you get through all this, let me know, and I'll try to hook you up with some more resources to help you.

Northapt

Re: A puzzled father

Hello SFj

I recall chatting with you with you on another board a few years ago when I 1st discovered my daughters use. I think she was 18 or 19 then and before she went into drug court.
I'm glad to see you're still around.
I guess I've been through the mill with this. While I don't really understand meth I do know what NOT to do--having probably done it before.

I know from experience she'll try to give me a 1000 reasons not to go to treatment and why she can "write her own program" and why I should just support that. Yes I know the lingo. "I can't go to treatment because the dope man will kill me" and " I can pee clean every time...watch me" etc etc.......... I refuse to buy any of it so I just don't participate.

I guess for me the best defense is "no offense" Every time she calls, I ask if she's ready to go for help, if not don't call. She screams and yells that she does NOT NEED TREATMENT and hangs up. That's the only thing I have to say to her. I will not participate in hearing about who's out to get her or whatever. The other day she called and asked for laundry money and I said no.

I guess with an addict, the pain of doing the drug has to finally become larger then the pain they are trying to cover up for them to WANT recovery. I have concluded she does not.. yet. So I guess I'm waiting for that but not watching. That's far too painful.
Its so true what you said about HATING being told what to do. She says she'd rather give up her own child then go to treatment as no one can tell HER what to do!!

I know this is not mine and I pray for God to intercede. Surely, the mothers love she showed to her child in the beginning is still there. I hope it surfaces before the child is lost forever. CPS will require her to go to treatment or the child will go up for adoption. I guess the process takes about 6 mo to a year.

I know all my efforts to try and help have been in vein. She has to want to help herself. I can see where my "loving support" even when in recovery was a mistake.
I had given her the car she gave away last night. I gave it to her trying to reward her hard work in treatment.
I know this is not mine.
I always welcome your feedback my friend

Kellhappy

Re: A puzzled father

I think you hit the nail on the head when talking about her using 24/7 to numb her pain. I am full of emotional fallout from before, during and after my drug use. I am working on it. I think she may be desperately trying not to feel the pain that comes from everything we sometimes give up when using, especially loving relationships with people. I'm so grateful that thus far I've been clean since the birth of my son. When I was in treatment, I was there with a lot of moms. Moms who I truly believe desired to get clean and be the very best moms their babies could have. Some weren't ready, but I think some wanted it very badly. Like Sfj said, we're human, not perfect. Stumbling and failing can seem like the end of the world to us. The "cure" can seem quick and easy, the same old solution to numb the pain, getting loaded. It really sounds like you know the boundaries. It is perfectly understandable that you don't fathom the hold meth can get on us. It is unlike anything I experienced before or since. It erases the desire for anything except the next high. It erases morals, values, faith, hope, goals, health, contentment, peace of mind, and so many other parts of our lives. I did things that seem like they must've been in another life time. Things that now I'd only describe as wrong, and which seemed perfectly right, logical and even fun at the time. I did whatever I could to make sure the next high was a given. Life was heaven with a full bag, and hell with a nearly empty bag, or worse than hell with no drugs. Living that way only creates more pain to add to what's already there.

I'm so sorry to hear that this is all a part of your life. I wish the best for you, and for your daughter. I'm glad that you've come and shared and not tried to do this alone. It sounds like you've already learned a lot about being the loved one of an addict. I think you probably know a lot of things that would help others here. And having a place to talk and share like this can be helpful for you, too. Please don't keep all the thoughts, questions and feelings locked up inside you. This is a good place to share, vent and rant, even.

Peace and Love

Northapt

Re: A puzzled father

SFj made an interesting comment to me privately. My daughter says she refuses to go back to treatment. She's been twice before. Her daughter is on the line. She's in foster care now. Why would she be SO against it? anyone have any thoughts? Is it maybe ego? When I suggest she needs to go she BLOWS UP! Lots of denial and emotion around her negative reaction.

I remain puzzled but thanks to you all.

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