Some people don't know how to help!

People who want to help me have a weird way of doing it becuase I have yet to see someone actually try to help me right... instead what they do is say the worse possible things about me and thats suppose to make me wanna quit? Youre wrong... it makes me wanna just do more and more meth ...

I wish I can find someone who will make me feel better for myself enough that I wont need the meth to do it for me

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it makes me wanna just do more and more meth ...

"IT" can't MAKE you do or feel anything. You are in charge of that.
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I wish I can find someone who will make me feel better for myself enough that I wont need the meth to do it for me

Look in the mirror. That person is the only person who can give you the kind of help you are looking for.

Roxy,
Do you really truely wantto quit using? If you do then do it, who cares what bad things other people say about you! I believe you can quit and get your life together and be so happy! Some people dont know how to help others during addiction/recovery. Take my dad for example, when he found out he would tell me how im gonna be a low life and things and would say i couldnt get my lisence because we didnt need any "dope heads" on the road, some things people say do hurt our feelings but we cant go get high everytime we get our feelings hurt. Good luck hun God bless you!

Other people can't fix your addiction. you have to do that one all on your own. The best most can do for you is pray for your strenght to fight it. If you waste all your time and energy waiting on someone else to fix it, then sorry dear you'll be waiting a very long time.
Lorura said it best the one person who can help you will be looking back at you from your mirror. Good luck.
And people from this board always give good advice and they can encourage you on your journey but they can't fix you. Only you can fix you.

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People who want to help me have a weird way of doing it becuase I have yet to see someone actually try to help me right

Tell me Roxy ... What is your idea of being helped right? What is it that someone could say or do that would (make) you quit? Honestly ... ?

There isn't anything ..

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instead what they do is say the worse possible things about me and thats suppose to make me wanna quit?

Roxy, this is called the three C's and it applies to all addicts no matter what the drug of choice is ... No one can CAUSE your addiction, no one can CONTROL your addiction, No one can CURE your addiction ... (some people) don't know that ... and even with the best intentions they make a lot of mistakes) but make no mistake "if (some people) in your life are trying to help you ... more than likely it is because they care about YOU

YOU CAN RECOVER from your addiction, but it is YOU who has to do it NO ONE can make the decission for you, No one can go through the process for you ... No one, but ROXY

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Youre wrong... it makes me wanna just do more and more meth ...

You are an addict and what addicts do IS MORE ... and the longer you use the MORE your addiction will require ... and blaming other people is what addicts do, blame and excuses to do more. Blaming is used as an excuse to do more. It boils down to this Addict, Addiction, More Meth ... YOU no one else.

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I wish I can find someone who will make me feel better for myself enough that I wont need the meth to do it for me

If you are looking for someone to fix it all for you and make it all go away so you will quit using ... then you'll be lost in your addiction alot longer ... No one can fix you Roxy ... but their are people who can show you the road to helping yourself and if you take the steps you need to take ... in time You won't need meth to make you feel better ... but it is YOU Roxy who has to follow the lead of those of us that have been down the path before you ... NA is a wonderful place to get help NA Meeting Locator look for a meeting in your area ... go just to check it out ... You'll be amazed at the people with stories that are so close to how you feel now and you'll learn the steps you need to take to become a "recovering addict"

I have been down the path and there are plenty of others here that have too ... and we can HELP you ... If YOU let us.

People think moving and getting away from people that they use with will help them stop using ... People think if only I had someone to do this or to do that or to say this or to say that, to love me like this or love me like that I wouldn't have to use meth, but the truth is no matter where you go, no matter who your with, no matter how they love you You are an addiction and what is going on is inside you ... You know you can run, but you can't hide because ... where ever you go (there you are) Healing has to come from the inside out ...

I am glad you came to the forum and posted ... I hope you will stick around ... you can learn so much here ... and there are really good people here ... Just come and read the words of others that struggle like you do ... of those that know what is like to be in that struggle but know the way out ... read about the other people that have loved ones that are addicted to meth ... There is so much to be learned from this site ... I hope you will come back again and again and again ...

Someone who knows,
Passion

Roxy, thought this might help you understand meth on a different level ... The following is from the FAQ page of KCI ...

Q: What is Methamphetamine?

A: Methamphetamine is a powerful central nervous system stimulant.

The drug works directly on the brain and spinal cord by interfering with normal neurotransmission. Neurotransmitters are chemical substances naturally produced within nerve cells used to communicate with each other and send messages to influence and regulate our thinking and all other systems throughout the body.

The main neurotransmitter affected by methamphetamine is dopamine. Dopamine is involved with our natural reward system. For example, feeling good about a job well done, getting pleasure from our family or social interactions, feeling content and that our lives are meaningful and count for something, all rely on dopamine transmission,

A synthetic drug, methamphetamine has a high potential for abuse and dependence. It is illegally produced and sold in pill form, capsules, powder and chunks. Methamphetamine was developed early in this century from its parent drug amphetamine and was originally used in nasal decongestants, bronchial inhalers, and in the treatment of narcolepsy and obesity. In the 1970s methamphetamine became a Schedule II drug - a drug with little medical use and a high potential for abuse.

Q: How does methamphetamine take over one's life?

A: Methamphetamine short-circuits a person's survival system by artificially stimulating the reward center, or pleasure areas in the brain. This leads to increased confidence in meth and less confidence in the normal rewards of life. This happens on a physical level at first, then it affects the user psychologically. The result is decreased interest in other aspects of life while reliance and interest in meth increases. In one study, laboratory animals pressed levers to release methamphetamine into their blood stream rather than eat, mate, or satisfy other natural drives. The animals died of starvation while giving themselves methamphetamine even though food was available.

What ingredients are used to make meth?

(Roxy, these things were not made to go into the human system ... but when you use this is what you're using)

A. Over-the-counter cold and asthma medications containing ephedrine or pseudoephedrine, red phosphorous, hydrochloric acid, drain cleaner, battery acid, lye, lantern fuel, and antifreeze are among the ingredients most commonly used
Q: What are the short-term effects?

A: Central Nervous System Side Effects

Even small amounts of methamphetamine can produce euphoria, increased alertness, paranoia, decreased appetite and increased physical activity. Other central nervous system effects include athetosis (writhing jerky, or flailing movements), irritability, extreme nervousness, insomnia, confusion, tremors, anxiety, aggression, incessant talking, hyperthermia, and convulsions. Hyperthermia (extreme rise in body temperature as high as 108 degrees) and convulsions sometimes can result in death.

Cardiovascular Side Effects

Use can produce chest pain and hypertension which can result in cardiovascular collapse and death. In addition, methamphetamine causes accelerated heartbeat, elevated blood pressure and can cause irreversible damage to blood vessels in the brain.

Other Physical Effects

Pupil dilation, respiratory disorders, dizziness, tooth grinding, impaired speech, dry or itchy skin, loss of appetite, acne, sores, numbness, and sweating.

Roxy, take a look at this page Double Click Here To See Face's Of Meth

Psychological Effects

Symptoms of prolonged meth abuse can resemble those of schizophrenia and are characterized by anger, panic, paranoia, auditory and visual hallucinations, repetitive behavior patterns, and formication (delusions of parasites or insects on the skin). Methamphetamine-induced paranoia can result in homicidal or suicidal thoughts.

Q: What other long-term effects can result?

A: Fatal kidney and lung disorders, brain damage, liver damage, blood clots, chronic depression, hallucinations, violent and aggressive behavior, malnutrition, disturbed personality development, deficient immune system, and methamphetamine psychosis, a mental disorder that may be paranoid psychosis or may mimic schizophrenia.

Q: How much of the drug can cause an overdose?

A: A toxic reaction (or overdose) can occur at relatively low levels, 50 milligrams of pure drug for a non-tolerant user. Metabolic rates vary from person to person, and the strength of the illegal form of the drug varies from batch to batch, so there is no way of stating a "safe" level of use. In overdose, high fever, convulsions and cardiovascular collapse may precede death. Because stimulants effect the body's cardiovascular and temperature-regulating systems, physical exertion increases the hazards of meth use.
 

roxy..
we see this over and over that people need our help quitting,
there is only so much we can do for you.
If you lay it down we can talk to you about your feelings
every single day, but it all up to you.
...If there were only some magic that was available to help
we all would have some to give you.
but there's not.
If you use this board as an excuse to use, you were just
looking for an excuse because you want one.
The regular board s here are very sensitive but also
recovering addicts just like you.
we all have our own ups and downs and please consider when
using a message board, you loose tone of voice, smiles,
eye to eye contact....things that help comunication
to be more understood.
its how you understand these flat words on the page that
gives them meaning.
...and all it takes is a typing error to make it say something altogether different.
cut us some slack.
we care very much about every soul thats lost where we found ours.
we all have moods, you and I and others.
just be good to yourself and try to become you again.
thats what we all do here everyday.
peace.

Roxy, if I could recover for you, I would. If I could get for you what I have found for myself in recovery, I would glady do it.

I can't do it for you, nobody can. All we can do is point you in the right direction and support you as you go through it. You don't have to do it alone, though - you can recover with thousands who have recovered before you at Narcotics Anonymous. NA meeting locator

It starts with being honest. Blaming other people for your own drug use is just going to keep you loaded. No one is responsible for your behavior but YOU. You can choose not to use - you CAN learn how to get clean and stay clean. You have to do it, though. I did it, thousands have done it - thousands of people get freedom from active addiction every day.

I can't do this for you. I have shared how I did it for myself - if it worked for me, it will work for you too.

If YOU take the initiative and do this for yourself.

Whoa! Roxy, you've got yourself quite the support group going here! These wonderful peeps DO know what's up, and the best part is....{{{you keep coming back}}}
Trust me, we ALL kick and squirm as we deliberate stopping this deadly addicion, and we desperately need the help and advice of others. You are getting the best advice there is, it may not add up or make sense while you're using but it certainly will after you are down for a while. Dead ain't cool and many have gone there quite suddenly and without warning. We're hoping to raise the *bottom* so you don't become a statistic. So listen up, reach out, the door to your recovery is wide open, keep coming back and all of this will begin to make sense. Never give up! And re, you'll never be alone with this nightmare again, you have us now. Lean on us....Trust us. Try NA, get your life back, you won't be sorry.

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Tell me Roxy ... What is your idea of being helped right? What is it that someone could say or do that would (make) you quit? Honestly ... ? There isn't anything ..

There isn't anything?
Wow, sounds pretty grim.

Well Nyte, actually there are quite a few positive ways of expressing the comfort and support that many users are starving for. We're not all bad people-- thieves, liars, violent criminals, etc as the hype surrounding methamphetamine has grouped ALL of us users to be. It's unfortunate and spirit-crushing considering that some of us are good people just caught up in a snarl along the path of life.

The last thing we need is to be called worthless tweakers, trailer trash, helpless, toothless, jobless, selfish thieves living in squalor. It is akin to being treated like a leper or pariah. What we COULD use perhaps, from our family and friends who are concerned are...

(note: The following things may not "make" us quit necessarily, but certainly would be helpful in fostering a confident mindset-- something vital to the user's desire to overcome something as major as quitting meth.)


1. Faith - How can we believe in ourselves if no one else believes in us?

2. Patience - Healing takes time.

3. Praise for the actions/behaviors that ARE positive no matter how few or infrequent-- just that we are recognized. NOT solely pointing out the negative and drilling into our heads what sick, hopeless, and powerless statistics we are.

4. Reassurance that we're loved for the people we are no matter what we are going through. Some call this unconditional love, I would call it a necessity for a healthy sense of being in any type of life's predicaments.

5. Respect our intelligence! We know when we have become addicted. We know much more than you realize.
We are fully aware of the effects on our bodies both physically and mentally more than anyone else possibly could as they ARE *our* bodies.

6. Don't point out the obvious. We feel your disapproving stares, analyzing our appearance and behavior. This is incredibly insulting and only nurtures the "leper" stigma. It causes more guilt and shame which in turn drives the fragile user to desire a means of escape from these unpleasant feelings.


What we need is positive reinforcement, not persecution!

We don't need forcefed, unsolicited advice.

We don't need regurgitated 12-step rhetoric.

We don't need sugary, cliched words of "encouragement" from a Dear Abby column,

and we certainly don't need cut-and-pasted sections of the kci.org meth FAQ with a condescending attitude behind it!

What we most desperately desire is to hear the following simple sentence--

"I'm sorry you're going through such a difficult time right now, but I love you no matter what, I believe in you, and I have faith that your strength will get you through this."

THAT, NytePassion, is my idea of "being helped right." These kind, genuine words of reassuring love are ones many, many people long to hear no matter what their obstacle, drugs or not.

When this posting was found on our board by me I sent Roxyisme two words by private message. A message I have yet to have a reply to. A message that asks what may be the hardest question of all for anyone, addicted or not, to answer.

What hurts?

Glyph, I did'nt see any mention of accountability on the addicts part. Putting the kid gloves on and patronizing the addict are *enabling* by any measure, you just described the perfect environment for an addict to thrive. Your pity pot recipie for dealing with an addict strikes me as a best case scenario for an addict to continue with their addiction at the continued expense of others, and boy do they! Lets give them comfort and support while they lie, cheat, and steal from us... as the home gets foreclosed, the savings are depleted, the children are removed, our lives are threatened and we're called every filthy name in the book!
"Poor little tweaker, *please* be good"............. The poor little addict needs to *EARN* respect and *stand accountable*, maybe even *accept responsiblity* for the mayhem they cause. As far as this recovering addict is concerned, we need to *EARN* the Faith, paitience, praise, reassurance and respect that you're talking about.

jeepers, danimal.....sounds like I hit on a touchy subject with you? Have you been burned by a "tweaker"? Someone obviously caused "mayhem", as you put it, in your life, who was involved in meth. I'm sorry that happened to you.

What I posted were only my personal opinions. I have a right to them as do you to yours. I'm sorry you have a bias against the techniques that I believe are the least negative and discouraging to one who's in a personal crisis. The times that I am treated with respect and compassion are the times when I don't even want any drugs.

True, there are the criminal minded liars, thieves, and mayhem causers on meth who probably are hard to find an ounce of compassion for esp. when they have affected you personally. There are also many of these lowlife-types, men and women, who do not use at all.

However, if you had read my post thoroughly, I was trying to emphasize that there are also responsible, and mature people as well, who engage in drug use. These people aren't hyped up as much on the 6:00 news tho, eh?

Lumping every stimulant user together as having one single character definition (i.e. thief, liar) is a form of close-minded stereotyping. This is akin to racial profiling, gender stereotyping, homophobia, etc. That's like saying every man who drinks alcohol viciously beats his wife and kids.

It is morally unfair to label and assume any certain group of people are so one dimensional.

This seems to completely disregard any one individual's unique qualities. Their level of class, their personal beliefs (ethics), the depth of their character, their humor, their style, their humanity? All out the window?

All because you personally had a bad experience with one or two who engage in meth use.

That's a shame....very shallow thinking. Understanding and forgiveness take time and some people don't take that time or care at all. I hope that you don't allow one bad apple to create a forever tunneled view of the world and its very diverse people.

Be human. Don't judge. Not unless you've walked plenty of miles in their shoes.

Gylph, Although I would like to say your right, I can't, why because I have a daughter who is an addict and We her parents have done everything we could to help her, love her and make sure that we are there for her. In return she has given us more lie's, shelfishness, pain, and tears then I can tell you. We tried your way and It didn't work and I wish to god that it did, because she use to be the best person and she was so giving and how all she thinks about is herself period!!!!!!! She doesn't care how much she hurts us as long as she gets what she wants. So you want kind words will some of us don't have any to give, when you get burned you stay away from the fire at all costs. You want nice words then prove it. Change your life and do whats right and then you will earn the nice words. Action speaks louder than words.

Roxy,

I do know what you mean. Some kinds of help really dont help. At the same time though there has to be some responsibility on your part. You notice that you just want to use more and more meth to escape your problems... Eventually that will destroy you.

You're right that being told you're worthless isnt something that will help you with your recovery. One of the most important parts of my recovery was deciding I liked me enough to care about recovering. I was at the point where I hadnt just accepted that I might die living how I was... I expected it, and looking back now I would swear I was chasing death.

Have you ever been to an NA or AA meeting? I would suggest going. They may seem boring sometimes but they provide a great group of people who all want the same thing: to recover and to help others recover. Being a part of a group of sober people who all do care about you... but wont enable you is a great help.

Umm, I also wanted to say... I think it bothered me that some people overlooked or ignored parts of Roxy's post. Sure, some of what she said sounded like "Oh why can't the world just be nicer to me?" but some of what she said was valid... and not only that... I think the very fact that she's here shows she's open to maybe listen to ideas about recovery.

To put it really simply... if nobody had been there and told me they cared about me? If nobody had been welcoming to me on this board, if nobody had let me know they really cared about me and wanted me to be clean... because they wanted what was best for me? I would be dead or in prison or headed that way very very fast. I'm not saying addicts should be pampered or enabled... I just think that listening to them and trying to guide them is the way to share your recovery.

I dont mean to attack anyone by what I said. I dont mean to imply anyone else is wrong in what they wrote. I just know that many times a person can't say "I want help, I want recovery." I was a person who never would have said that. I just think that Roxy being here and talking about the fact she recognizes her problem is her also saying she is open to ideas. This board is here to help addicts to quit.. I just know not every addict can ask in a tone that comes off as humble. Everyone deserves a chance at recovery though.

peace.

To this day we ask our daughter, what can we do to help? she walks away, we never tell her she's a loser or be mean to her. I understand that Roxy is looking for kind words and I am so happy that she knows that shes needs help and I hope to god she gets it. But nobody can make you feel bad unless you let them. Stand up and do what you have too, then look back and smile at the people that made you feel this way. As a mother I telling you, you can do it, and if you do god bless you Hon. I don't think any drug addicts are losers just people who need to get help and change there lives, but we cant do it for you only you can. Good Luck and god bless you Roxy, I will pray for you to do what you need to do.

Hey Glyph, apparently you missed the part where NytePassion and Danimal ARE RECOVERING METH USERS. And guess what, so am I!

No one ever helped me by kissing my ass, patting me on the head when I did something good (For a change,) or telling me "Poor Penelope, how can I do this for you?" I WAS a thief, a liar, and an irresponsible person - and guess what - I always worked, I've never lived in squalor, and most people thought I WAS a together person! Thank God I stopped lying to myself about who I REALLY was - I'm a drug addict, pure and simple. When I stopped blaming the world for MY BEHAVIOR, I learned that I COULD recover, and today, I am CLEAN.
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Be human. Don't judge. Not unless you've walked plenty of miles in their shoes.

I walked 26 years worth of miles in my own shoes - and I am CLEAN. Danimal has walked through hell and back with his addiction - he is clean. NytePassion has not only dealth with her own addiction, but has suffered the death of her childrens father because of Meth addiction.

I found a way out of the Hell of addiction - how about you? Are you still blaming the rest of the world for your addiction? Why don't you man up and take responsibility for your own actions?

I did (Even though I am not a man...) I haven't used meth for 20 months now.

How about you?

Thank you Guene. Recovery starts with HONESTY - honesty with ourselves first, then with God and the rest of the world too.

All that "Poor Me" crap did in my life was keep me on dope. "Gee, if the world / my boss / my mommy / my husband / the government / the dog was just NICER TO ME, I wouldn't HAVE TO USE!"

Bullshyt. I used because I liked it, then I needed it, then I hated it and had no idea how to stop. 26 years of lying to myself kept me loaded.

My recovery started when I became HONEST about what was REALLY going on in my life - I was using drugs, and my behavior was keeping me from having a good life.

how was I to know you were recovering addicts? I'm new here and neither of you mentioned that. I still stick to what I said.

I am not looking for pitying words, which is something I think many of you misunderstood completely. Just a little more simple compassion and understanding for different types of people.

I hold a full time job and have been married for 5 years. I just don't like being generalized as some kind of scumbag who "needs help" desperately. No, this is not a denial thing people. There are, though few, functioning drug users.

Why these adversarial attacking responses from ex-addicts, etc. who aim to villify anyone who continues to use but does not steal, cheat and lie? How do you adamantly insist that I must belong to this shady type of lifestyle? I never changed my moral beliefs from before I used to this very moment.

Excuse me but isn't this Roxy's thread?

C'mon kid tell me why and what. I can listen, better yet I can hear.

I don't feel that one person that responed to this post responded in a negative manner, they all gave very good advice and encouragement, not anywhere did i read that they said she was not worthy. all i have read is that SHE has to take responsibility for her addiction, nothing wrong with that, we all have to take responsibility for things that we do in our life whether it be drug addiction, or everyday life choices, i am not a drug addict , but some of my family are and when i first came to this board i whined constantly about my family and how they made all our lives a living hell, well guess what i have learned from these wonderful people? That I have to take responsibility for my own happiness! imagine that I can control my happiness, and with all these good ppl's advice I am a happier person today, I am not as bitter, and i speak to my family. I know that they still do drugs and i hate it, but from what i have learned on this site i can't make them go thru recovery all i can do is love them and that is what i do, but under no circumstances will i let them control my world. I think that i am a better person than i was 2 months ago, thanks to all here at this board. there is a lot of wisdom, love, and encouragement that goes on here, and i for one and very thankful for all that i have learned. YOU GUYS ARE WONDERFUL, PLEASE KEEP UP ON ALL THE GOOD ADVICE IT IS VERY MUCH NEEDED
GOD BLESS YOU ALL
NICENNURSE

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I just don't like being generalized as some kind of scumbag who "needs help" desperately.

Who here called you a scumbag? Who made generalizations of that nature other than YOU?

Listen, we speak from experience. I was a so called "Functional user" - I was married for 15 years before it caught up with me. I worked the same job for 11 years before it caught up with me. I have children and was a great Mom - and then it caught up with me. I thought I had it all together - I BELIEVED I was OK!

I was NOT OK! I was just sliding down a slippery slope that is more sloped for some than it is for others. Some of us are just able to keep it together longer than others...but let me ask you a question:

If you NEED drugs to function - are you REALLY functional?

If you are going to tell me now that you don't "Need" meth to function, then STOP USING NOW. See how it goes. If you find that you go right back, guess what?

YOU ARE AN ADDICT.

Denial is a powerful force that kept me loaded for most of my adult life. Here I am, 42 years old, just learning how to live WITHOUT being doped up every day. If I had it to do again knowing what I know today... but I don't. I just have to live what is left of my life, and I intend to do that CLEAN.

I appreciate your positive attitude NiceNurse and commend you on your strength in moving forward in your life. All the while, you continue to express your love to your family in spite of their choices. That is honorable.

The world needs more perspectives like yours.

Glyph, sometimes, when you really love a person, you have to do things that the person isn't necesarily going to like.

Lot's of people loved me when I was using - the ones that didn't buy into my bullshyt were the ONLY ones I gave any respect. The rest? They got used. Lend me money, bail me out of jail, believed me when I lied to them.

I am SO grateful to my loved ones who DIDN'T enable me. These are the people who saved my life. To those who did enable - they did so with the best intentions, and today, I owe them all a great amends.

Just clarifying: I never meant to imply that anyone on this forum specifically was making me feel like a worthless scumbag.

Once again, my only real point was for society in general, ex-addicts or not, to avoid lumping all people together as having the same unnavoidable horrible outcome just because you or someone you know happened to have that experience.

I esp. do not appreciate the condemnation (IN CAPS) that "I AM AN ADDICT". You are in no place to declare or diagnose anyone as a hopeless addict in denial. It's pompous and incredibly rude.

You do not know my individual situation or anyone else's for that matter....you should probably quit preaching and pointing fingers at others. I'm sorry you are upset that it took control of you. Don't take it out on strangers.

Perhaps, you should stick to your own sobriety regimens, and leave people to figure out their own paths..whatever they may be. It's not nice to slam someone just because their opinions may differ from yours.

Have a wonderful day, though, anyway. No hard feelings...just standing my ground for what I believe and hope for everyone to strive to keep more open minds.

Do you know that I've been on both sides of the coin? So do I have understanding from both sides of the fence ...

I've been the addict, recovering addict and the one that did everything possible to save my addicted loved one ... I've lost friends and family to drugs to many times.

As for my addicted loved one ... I had so much faith in him, I believed with all my heart that he could beat this addiction ... I believed him everytime he said he was sorry and was going to quit ... I had faith ... Although ended up having to leave him, I still had faith that one day he would get clean ... or maybe it was hope ... that hope died Oct 16, 2004 that is the day Meth took his life.

There ISN'T anything that anyone could say to "MAKE" Roxy or anyone else quit .. and that is the grim truth ... You think that sounds grim to the user ? Well it doesn't sound any better for those that have addicted loved ones that they've bent over backwards trying to say and do all the right things to MAKE their loved ones quit

NO ONE CAN MAKE YOU QUIT ... period.

YOU HAVE TO DO IT FOR YOURSELF
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The last thing we need is to be called worthless tweakers, trailer trash, helpless, toothless, jobless, selfish thieves living in squalor. It is akin to being treated like a leper or pariah

Perhaps this is how you perseive yourself ... because it didn't come from me.
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(note: The following things may not "make" us quit necessarily, but certainly would be helpful in fostering a confident mindset-- something vital to the user's desire to overcome something as major as quitting meth.)

Sugary enabling sweetness isn't what is going to give you the desire to quit meth ... it is only going to cripple you more .. The desire to quit has to come from within YOU .. Stop deflecting ...
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1. Faith - How can we believe in ourselves if no one else believes in us?

I can have all the faith in the world and hope that someone will get clean, but my faith and hope doesn't mean a damn in the eyes of addiction ... If you don't believe in yourself then you are bound to fail ... My faith and hope isn't going to get you into recovery ...
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2. Patience - Healing takes time.

and healing can only take place when you start the process of recovery
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3. Praise for the actions/behaviors that ARE positive no matter how few or infrequent-- just that we are recognized. NOT solely pointing out the negative and drilling into our heads what sick, hopeless, and powerless statistics we are.

Praise didn't keep my husband from using ... he remained faithful to his addiction to the end of his life ... his addiction is what made him sick, hopeless and powerless .. NOT ME
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4. Reassurance that we're loved for the people we are no matter what we are going through. Some call this unconditional love, I would call it a necessity for a healthy sense of being in any type of life's predicaments.

Reassurance ... Let me reassure you of this ... Meth is a dangerous and can be a potientally fatal drug and if you use it can kill you ... Unconditional love isn't enough to save someone from themselves ... I loved my husband with all of my heart and I loved him enough not to pat him on his back and tell him he was doing a good job fking up ... I loved him enough to be completely honest with him about what he was doing to himself and to not stand by and watch it happen ... Quote:

5. Respect our intelligence! We know when we have become addicted. We know much more than you realize.

You talk about respecting YOUR intelligence ... What about OUR intelligence ... when we can clearly see that our loved one is changing and we know its because of meth, yet they lie and say they aren't using ... that we are crazy and making @#%$ up and even when caught in action they will still tell you that you are not seeing what you see ... give me a break ... Are you fully aware ?? Really? Then why do you continue to use? Because your an addict and you are caught in the web of your addiction and it doesn't matter what you are doing to your mind or body *yourself*, to your family or friends ... Nothing matters but the addiction ... Period.
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6. Don't point out the obvious. We feel your disapproving stares, analyzing our appearance and behavior. This is incredibly insulting and only nurtures the "leper" stigma. It causes more guilt and shame which in turn drives the fragile user to desire a means of escape from these unpleasant feelings.

Addiction is what drives a user to desire a means of escape ... Don't deflect and blame.

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and we certainly don't need cut-and-pasted sections of the kci.org meth FAQ with a condescending attitude behind it!

Condescending attitude? or enlightening information ? I think it is wonderful information that helps explain what is going on with the brain when you use ... and I personally when I used didn't know all that stuff ...

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What we most desperately desire is to hear the following simple sentence-- "I'm sorry you're going through such a difficult time right now, but I love you no matter what, I believe in you, and I have faith that your strength will get you through this."

So, let me see if I am reading you clearly ... You want to stick meth up your nose, in a pipe and smoke it, or shoot it, your life falls apart and I am supposed to say, I'm sorry your having a difficult time? No, I hope your life falls apart and I hope you are fortunate enough to have people that love you enough to NOT enable you or make your life easy so that you can continue using without consequence .. I hope that the pressure and burden of your addiction gets so heavy that you decide to get the help you need in order to get clean ... I'm not going to kiss your ass or your addictions ass .. I'm gonna tell you like it is .. and more than likely your not gonna like it and then you'll write a post to express "your opinion" like the one you wrote ... I must have hit a nerve ... and I sit here thinking "Good"

What you desperately desire and what you desperately need are two different things ... I find your desire is meth .. I find your need to be RECOVERY ..

BTW: I've known plenty of functional users and the longer they used the less functional they became .. Some where along the line they found a D Y and S and ended up Dysfunctional ... It's only a matter of time

You talk about believing in a person .. What I believe in is the power of meth to destroy ones life if they continue to use ... I've witnessed it over and over and over again ...

Passion

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I hold a full time job and have been married for 5 years. I just don't like being generalized as some kind of scumbag who "needs help" desperately.

What brought you here to this site?

Curious,
Passion

Just one question Glyph....how's your way of handling this working for you????

Glyph, you know why I came to this site because I was at the end of the line, we have done everything to help our daughter, she's been raped, she had a car accident and had to have her face put back together, and she's gone to jail once for car theft (which she got out of) and She tried to kill herself. Through out all of this we were there for her, did she change NO!!!!! she is still in denial and she still won't ask to go to a rehab. She sees a counselor once a week and last week she was told she needs to go into a program, you know what she did, she went and got FK up all week, maybe not meth but drinking and staying gone and coming home with this chip on her shoulder. I came here because I need to find a way to say NO MORE!!!!!! and if it means kicking her out will then so be it. She's going to be 21 in Nov. and she still lives at home, no job, no school and not so many friends lift. I love her so much, but there is only so much that you can do if they won't help thereself. You might think your life is ok, but sooner or later the drug will be your down fall. I have found people here that know how I feel and can talk to me and know what they are talking about. That in it self is why I come here. They are my new friends and I love them for caring enough to listen to me.

A coulple of questions Glyph, to try and better embrace your perpsectives: How long have you used, and how much do you use? How long have you been clean?
What do you do to stay clean? i.e. treatment/rehab/ongoing recovery plan? What is your wifes take on it all?

There ALWAYS comes a time when the people that LOVE the addict just can't take it any more. I am guilty of slinging words that may have been out of place, but certainly not uncalled for. Meaning, I just said the wrong thing at the wrong time. In my situation, my daughter said the most hateful, mean, hurtful things a mother can hear coming from the mouth of their own child....most especially after all the worry, confusion, and trying to understand--just trying to help when we did not know how to help. At first we don't understand what is going on, when we get edjamacated...we get angry--and tell me I'm wrong, I don't care, but if you use, you lie. It just goes hand in hand. It's not the small lies either. It's things that matter. My attitude changed after a while, because I was being treated like a piece of crap, and I lashed out from time to time. Did it help? Well, I can tell you my daughter now knows I won't take her shyt, and I'm human too. Take a look at how you talk to others. If you were dripping with gooey ooey sweet talk, no one could justify talking mean to you.

However, it's not just the way we choose to speak to the addict. Life is full of mean words. You don't have to be a user to get in the cross fire. People get stressed, life is stressful, we all say things we shouldn't. We have ALL been hurt by words, no matter who you are. But to stand still and let the user rant and rave at you, charging you with--and making excuses that YOU are the one driving them to use is just ridiculous. However, I do understand a bit what you and Roxy are trying to say. I think all of us could take a little more time, and try to treat others with kindness. BUT ONLY IF IT IS DESERVED. When you use, you destroy so many more lives than just your own....and it's darn hard to keep quiet about it. Like was already mentioned, the time to praise and be positive is when you actually see some positive actions taking place with the user.

I don't believe in beating someone down constantly, I do think it begats negative behavior, but there is a time for everything. You want to destroy lives of people that love you? It's time to be in your face. You want to change, I will change too. But don't wait til I'm nice before you quit....the monkey's on your back. No one can re-act until YOU ACT.

I do know people that have talked negative to their kids all their lives. Some grow up and prove those people wrong. Others grow up and make sure those negative things are true. It's all up to you. Give me a reason to praise you, and I will. If you're not doing anything wrong, what would I have to say "mean" to you?

Roxy, if you are hurt by what is being said, then look within yourself to see what you are doing to cause that negative RE-ACTION. We are glad you are here, and as you can see from all the posting, there are many people to help you thru this. You DO mean something to us. YOU are important to us. Please keep coming here and get these problems worked out, okay? We are all pulling for you....and we all have our opinions! Take from them what works for you. It takes different personalities to help so many different people. We'd like to hear from you again.

Sandi

those who have never been spun or who haven't had experience with the dope will usually not get it

You are so right kitty, those of us that have not done drugs don't understand, but those of you that have not been on the other side (loved ones of an addict)also do not understand how we feel. EVERYONE IS AFFECTED BY DRUGS. USERS,FAMILY S, FRIENDS,HUSBANDS, WIVES,AND MOST ESPECIALLY CHILDREN.no one is saying that they are not willing to help understand and i have read some really good posts on this thread , and what it boils down to is EVERYONE INCLUDING ADDICTS AND NON-ADDICTS are responsible for their OWN ACTIONS. so saying this i will love my drug addicts with all my heart, but i will no longer carry their a$$es anymore, so if you consider that insenstive i am sorry that i have offended you, we are all here to help , but we will not tell you it is alright to do drugs, and as some people say on this board we will not put a pillow under ur butt, but we will be here to offer encouragement, advice, and most of all love. so no i don't understand how u feel and i am so glad to say i don't, but i am here to offer anything i have to help you and others.

HAVE A NICE DAY
NICENNURSE

yeah,I can empathize.
...sometimes you guys can all be sort of overwhelming *smiles*
I have to side with the under dog most of the time its just my nature.
poor dude just got here.
you have a strong personality miss penelope, you don't even realize how brightly you shine,
at times its blinding.
I appreciate and understand you now.
.........so shine on you crazy diamond.(pink floyd song)

We have this saying in NA - "You can carry the message but you can't carry the addict."

All I can share is what worked for me and thousands of others like me. I don't believe that browbeating is the way to go with ANY human being, addict or otherwise.

But I also believe that honesty is the only way to go. And to be honest, no-one ever got anywhere kissing my ass when I was out there using - and not one person on this earth "Made" me use...except ME.

I wuv you suzette

*smiles*
I was talking about glyph, ......not roxy.
Our replies were the same for roxy pretty much,
if she quits, we're here to talk to her.

...glyph reminds me of myself in alot of ways, stuggling to break away from the "mold" of sterotyping everyone and looking at the individual as individual.

...we both seem to struggle with the "rules" and feel there
are none that work for every single person.

I wuv ooo too

....I also realize most of you quit with a 12 step program.

I just quit, because it was time....so I did.

I knew there was better coffee out there somewhere!

Suzie, quitting is the easy part eh? Staying quit is not!
6 years is a LONG time to be clean..... only to pick up again What in *thee hell* happened?? That's scary....but..it makes me even more cautious and devoted to recovery. Good coffe helps but it takes more than a finely brewed cup to stay cean for the duration. I'm only hoping to encourage you to get involved in a program of recovery and *stay there*, so many peeps get clean for long periods of time only to fall back in....something is missing eh?
Our meth addiction will come calling, like a crossfire hurricane, we *must* have a refuge when it does, our best thinking ain't it. My refuge is the fellowship and principals of the 12 steps, the daily ritual of recovery, and the great friends that come with it, not to mention the very special coffee... unique to NA. This forum is wonderful, it's a lifesaver, BUT! we need more. This altered statesman will always be recover*ING*, I've seen what happens to those who think they have it beat! *WE* get our butts kicked! Been there..done that!

Wow! Reading all these replies has been like watching a title fight. I love when people put their hearts into it.

I am the mother of a user. I have begged, pleaded, cried, supported, patted his back, padded his ass and wiped his tears. In my experience all those things didn't mean jacks@%t to him. He'd say he was sorry, sleep it off, get a bellyful, clean clothes and body.. and be off and running again.

I know he doesn't want to hear me say anything negative, well, guess what? I'll stop saying negative things when he stops doing negative things.

Users don't live in isolation (God wouldn't that make it easier!). They affect everyone around them - those who love them and those who just barely know them. No matter how much you give they just keep taking and asking for more.

Are users scumbags? Nope. But they sure do a whole lot of really s@%#tty things to the people who love them and who they SAY they love.

My new motto is: DON"T TELL ME, SHOW ME!

So to my son:

If you want me to believe you are trying to kick it, then get your ass to the meetings, get on this site, contact your sponsor and tell her the REAL reason you have been MIA.

Come home and spend time w/your son, and when he goes to bed STAY home.

Quit lying. I don't believe you anymore and I'm tired of hearing it.

I'm tired of pouring my love into a bucket full of holes. Patch the holes, buddy.

I love you.

Amen Nana! "Show me" is right! What you see ...is what you get.

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I'm tired of pouring my love in a bucket full of holes

Good for you!
You make alot of sense!!

Nana...this "Nanny" seconds that! My bucket is full of holes too. Some have been patched, but there are still those damn holes at the top....which tell me the ladder of success (crawling up the bucket!) has not been reached.

Yes, a lot of love and thoughtfulness has been poured into this thread. We ALL have something to identify to here. Sandi

Nana I like the way you write!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Roxy,

Let us love you until you can learn to love yourself. We are here for you.

Has anyone said that yet? Well I'll say it again!!!!!

MG

I am sorry that you feel that you can not quit because people are telling you the bad things about yourself. Are these the people that you have hurt? No offence but the people that you have hurt have a right to tell you how you have made them feel. Maybe you just do not want to get clean because you do not want to face up to the reality of what you have done? I am sorry to sound so harsh, but we all need to be accountable for our actions and accept what comes from the things we have done. If you do not like the bad things about yourself, CHANGE them. Just my opinion. PLease do not be offended.
Rachel

people will tell you bad things about yourself (and good)constantly for the rest of your life.

shake it off if it does'nt seem true, if it applies try to fix it.
......thats all.

Suz, you are soooo right. There's an old saying that if someone tells you something about yourself, you can ignore it. If another person comments about the same thing....start to take notice, they may be right. If you hear it a THIRD time, more than likely, you are in the wrong-and have ignored the problem too long. Work on it. There is no shame in trying to better yourself. We all have to do it from time to time. If no one ever cared enough to show us our faults, it could be no one cared about us at all!! Thank God for people in our lives that care and want to see us do better.

one word roxy.........................................
Excuse.

its no one elses fault that you dont quit using and the sooner you realize that the sooner youll recover. but.... you might not have to worry about it cause if you keep using the people that care about you will catch on to your use and abuse of them, soon after seeking help for their own co dependency issues and stop trying to help you. i hope for your sake it doesnt come to that, but what can you expect? you dont care about them, all you need is meth right?

I agree. This sounds like blaming others for your behavior. That is classic addict behavior and in particular classic meth addiction behavior.